BJ Penn Lacks the True Parts of a Legend
BJ Penn, in my opinion, is the most talented mixed martial artist in the UFC today. Unfortunately, talent will only get you so far. Watching an almost lackadaisical Penn coast his way to a loss against an opponent many believed he was leaps and bounds better than was eye opening. Of course, not to take anything away from lightweight champion Frankie Edgar, who showed that hard work, gameplanning, and confidence can go a long way in the Octagon. However, the true story of Saturday night for me was not how great Edgar is but how BJ Penn is simply an immense talent that lacks the true ingredients of a legend.
A legend in my mind exudes certain qualities. It has nothing to do with his outside demeanor but moreso what he does or does not do inside the cage/ring. Let's see how BJ Penn stacks up to my legend criteria:
Perseverance - A true legend of any sport, perseveres. When faced with a challenge, that person takes it on no matter how much they have to shed blood, sweat, and tears. A good example would be just a few weeks ago at UFC 117 when champion Anderson Silva was outworked and outmuscled by Chael Sonnen. Instead of sitting back and admitting defeat, the champion changed the course of the entire fight with just a minute and some change left in a fight he had lost every single round. Compare that to Saturday, when faced with the same type of odds, BJ Penn simply wilted under the pressure. There was no sense of urgency whatsoever. Everything from his demeanor to his actions shouted defeat throughout the championship rounds. This is one quality certainly missing from BJ's repertoire.
Talent - Another prime quality of a legend is talent. This is one thing BJ has in abundance. You can look at the guy and look at his fights and just know that when he puts his mind to something, he masters it. From his striking to his unworldly jiu-jitsu, BJ Penn, as I stated in my first sentence of this commentary, is the most talented fighter I have ever seen in the Octagon. Unfortunately there's a price to pay with talent. If that is all you possess or all you stand on, your foundation will not last long. For as good as BJ is, there's something to say about hard work. A good example is his former welterweight foe Georges St. Pierre. GSP has always been talented. However, he does not see a ceiling for those talents as he matures in the sport. He takes it upon himself to tweak what God's given him and maximize his strengths while minimizing his weaknesses. BJ Penn seems to be the polar opposite. Maybe it is his team or maybe it is his ego, but from watching him the last few years, you do not see a fighter that has refined or refreshed his talents but basically a fighter that has relied on said talents to get him by opposition. Do not get me wrong, watching BJ Penn destroy Diego Sanchez and Kenny Florian was a thing of beauty. Thing is, his strengths were both those fighter's weaknesses and neither (at that weight) possessed the skillset to debunk BJ's. So while this is a quality BJ has, it is one that he has let stagnate for some time.
more after the jump
SBN coverage of UFC 118: Edgar vs. Penn 2
Heart - What legend do you know who does not have heart? This is one trait that is not necessarily God given but something you have to learn yourself. I think of heart and I think back to UFC 102 and the main event between Randy Couture and Antonio Rodgrio Nogueira. 'Big Nog' has had many wars that have shown what heart is truly about but I will focus on Couture here. He was faced with numerous submission attempts and battered on the feet, yet throughout their 15 minutes of all out war, never once did you see Couture mentally or physically checkout from the fight. Never once was there a moment where you thought Couture would simply back away or run or coast through a round. He faced a big time threat and even in defeat proved that he was truly a legend. BJ Penn, however, lacks the true definition of heart. Sure, he is a guy that even when exhausted will stumble out of his corner and attempt to throw punches and that is admirable but the lack of urgency you see in his face and body language in fights that he is visibly losing (Edgar 2, GSP 2, Hughes 2) does not exactly point out heart. Even in the first Edgar and St. Pierre fights, instead of pouring it on in the closing rounds and leaving everything in the Octagon, he coasted his way to the end. Not exactly a good example of heart.
Legacy - This is something Penn has said he wants to leave on the world of MMA many times. Legacy is leaving a resounding mark on something for the future to revel in. Building a legacy is something done through years and years of hard work and diligence. A good example of legacy, especially in MMA, is Wanderlei Silva. Although his best years are far behind him, many people block out the bad and remember the good. It is not like he had a 3-fight run or was on top for a year or two, his dominance and memorable bouts span nearly 7 years. Win or lose, he continually etched his name into legendary status. Will BJ Penn be remembered for his accomplishments or what he could have accomplished? While some guys that have built their legacy (Chuck Liddell, Wanderlei Silva, Randy Couture, Matt Hughes) can mask their steady decline on age and mileage, BJ is still a young man at 31 (will be 32 later this year). If we are questioning his future at this early age, maybe his legacy is not quite in tact. While he has done things and fought opposition no sane man at his size would, will he be remembered for taking on all challengers because he was bored with a certain weight class or will he be the new age Vitor Belfort, in that people are anxiously awaiting for him to return to the form that made him popular. I think Penn's legacy in the sport is safe as long as he does not go the route of guys like Ricco Rodriguez and Mark Kerr, but if Penn has in fact reached the glass ceiling in his career, his legacy does not stand where it should be.
All in all, BJ Penn has MADE me become a fan of his because he is ridiculously talented. The problem is that we have seen on several occasions that he brings the talent to the cage but does not always complete it with the proper work ethic.
Miscellaneous Thoughts from UFC 118
- I didn't really watch Andre Winner/Nick Lentz, meh
- Joe Lauzon was on a MISSION. Do not ever offer that dude cake in your life!
- Marcus Davis could make some money being in one of those drunk driving accident scare photos after Saturday night.
- It is hard not to be a fan of the Diaz brothers, they simply do not care who they fight!
- What was Kenny Florian doing?
- Gray Maynard got his title shot, but unless the undercard has Mike Tyson, Chuck Liddell, Randy Couture, GSP, Anderson Silva, Brock Lesnar, The Undertaker, Shawn Michaels, Triple H, The Rock, Stone Cold Steve Austin, Sylvester Stallone, and Barack Obama...this will do worse pay-per-view buys than UFC 72 (bet y'all don't even remember that one)
- Demian Maia is good but not great.
- Mario Miranda is good but not that good.
- James Toney had my mom in tears laughing, she thought this fight was a joke.
- Randy Couture, ummmmm.
and I'm out!
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The fifth one would be 'work ethic'
Which you hit on a bit under talent…but BJ Penn doesn’t have the drive to go out and train with others to better himself….
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by Kelvin Hunt on Aug 30, 2010 10:18 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I'm with you.
It probably deserves its own category. We get a bit spoiled watching all of these D-1 wrestlers come in with their absolutely ludicrous work ethic, we forget that not all fighters possess that quality upon entry to the sport.
If I was a hungry man with a gun in my hand and some promises to keep...
by misterjonez on Aug 30, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Heritage
I blame this more than anything, its so ingrained in his pysche to relax, take time out, chill, relax, hang out for a few days that he has no comprehension of work ethic.
In short, he’s a lazy shit and a waste of talent. I’m sorry but it’s true.
Congrats to Frankie too for putting him in his place and silencing him, I was ecstatic.
"If Michael Bisping ever addresses me in public comment again, I will bury him where he stands." ~ Chael Sonnen
fairweather fans….the guy struggles against Frankie after buzzsawing/dominating the other guys in the weight class and even doing well against anyone not named GSP in the 170 lb weight class, and now over the internet you guys question his heart and perserverance.
didn’t see this post when he brutalized Diego, or Sherk or finished KenFlo……
Gatti. Dekkers. Pele. Aoki. Kang. Vanderlei. Basillio. Harry Greb.
by theworldsoldestsport on Aug 30, 2010 11:01 AM EDT reply actions
- Kenflo is a choker (see maynard fight too)
- Sherk was never someone i bought into, he has the wingspan of a teddy bear
- Diego went life and death with clay guida after brutalizing him within the first 5min. nuff said.
"If Michael Bisping ever addresses me in public comment again, I will bury him where he stands." ~ Chael Sonnen
by RearNakedPoke on Aug 30, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
ehh
If there was any fight that Penn would have been motivated for….showed some urgency to win…it would have been this fight against Edgar…I mean he just lost to a 45’er for Christ’s sake….so yes…I question his work ethic….when affects things like perserverance and heart….
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by Kelvin Hunt on Aug 30, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree with the article, and would add
He really needs someone else in his corner, at least the guy talking. That guy was nothing more than a bad cheerleader, offering nothing beyond telling BJ to do what he was trying (and couldnt do) to do and calling Edgar names.
Folks have to keep in mind, BJ has about zero motivation past pride to train hard, and it shows. The guy’s family is filthy rich, so beyond personal motivations he probably isnt the most motivated to begin with. I do think he needs to decide if fighting is for him or not.
I think one thing as mentioned in the article is Penn is a “Front Runner” one of those guys who so long as the things he wants to do work out, he is an unstoppable machine. But he is not good at turning a frown upside down and coming from behind, and that is one thing someone who wants to be remembered in combat sports must do.
“BJ has about zero motivation past pride to train hard….The guy’s family is filthy rich, so beyond personal motivations he probably isnt the most motivated to begin with.”
- A. Silva said the same about Demian Maia in the middle of their fight, calling him the Portuguese for playboy/spoiled rich guy et cetera….is that why Demian’s done so well in the BJJ world yet had some off nights against world class fighters like Marquardt and Maia. Or just b/c he’s fighting the best in the world (like BJ).
it’s easy in retrospect to say “oh BJ’s never been that good”…….
the guy fought MACHIDA to a decision 3 weight classes about LW. how many 155’ers could do that?
Not to mention, fans say b/c he lost 2 decisions that he has no heart? I could say Fitch isn’t whatever b/c he got crushed by GSP (and will again), and Alves isn’t whatever b/c he got crushed by GSP (and would again)…hell, Koscheck is gonna lose to GSP AGAIN, probably by decision, but people won’t say it’s b/c he has no heart.
it’s easy to armchair and take what mma media tells you about a guy and think you’re informed about his character/personality. this is why guys that fight, who are smart, fight for themselves and their team, b/c most fans are just that, fans, not guys who have fought or ever even gone through a training camp to get ready for a fight. take what most fans think they know about MMA, then take whatever they think they can know about someone through the internet/interviews/articles and…..still not know enough about someone to know who they are as a person.
things look a lot easier from the stands.
Gatti. Dekkers. Pele. Aoki. Kang. Vanderlei. Basillio. Harry Greb.
by theworldsoldestsport on Aug 30, 2010 4:02 PM EDT reply actions
it’s easy to armchair and take what mma media tells you about a guy and think you’re informed about his character/personality. this is why guys that fight, who are smart, fight for themselves and their team, b/c most fans are just that, fans, not guys who have fought or ever even gone through a training camp to get ready for a fight. take what most fans think they know about MMA, then take whatever they think they can know about someone through the internet/interviews/articles and…..still not know enough about someone to know who they are as a person.
Yo..I’m really not feeling the whole…you have to be a fighter and go through a training camp..yada yada yada stuff…people here are saying that BJ Penn has no heart…because as oggsmash stated so well…
But he is not good at turning a frown upside down and coming from behind, and that is one thing someone who wants to be remembered in combat sports must do.
That is what heart is all about…and we’ve yet to see that from Penn..and probably never will. There is nothing to armchair about it…facts are facts….now..I’ve never said that BJ Penn had never been that good….but it’s clear to me that he doesn’t do well in adversity.
things look a lot easier from the stands.
I don’t doubt that they are…but there are times when it’s easier to see things from the stands than it is from inside the cage.
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But here is the thing....
"
BJ has about zero motivation past pride to train hard….The guy’s family is filthy rich, so beyond personal motivations he probably isnt the most motivated to begin with."
- A. Silva said the same about Demian Maia in the middle of their fight, calling him the Portuguese for playboy/spoiled rich guy et cetera….is that why Demian’s done so well in the BJJ world yet had some off nights against world class fighters like Marquardt and Maia. Or just b/c he’s fighting the best in the world (like BJ).
it’s easy in retrospect to say "oh BJ’s never been that good"…….
the guy fought MACHIDA to a decision 3 weight classes about LW. how many 155’ers could do that?
Not to mention, fans say b/c he lost 2 decisions that he has no heart? I could say Fitch isn’t whatever b/c he got crushed by GSP (and will again), and Alves isn’t whatever b/c he got crushed by GSP (and would again)…hell, Koscheck is gonna lose to GSP AGAIN, probably by decision, but people won’t say it’s b/c he has no heart.
it’s easy to armchair and take what mma media tells you about a guy and think you’re informed about his character/personality. this is why guys that fight, who are smart, fight for themselves and their team, b/c most fans are just that, fans, not guys who have fought or ever even gone through a training camp to get ready for a fight. take what most fans think they know about MMA, then take whatever they think they can know about someone through the internet/interviews/articles and…..still not know enough about someone to know who they are as a person.
things look a lot easier from the stands.
I have trained and fought before. I understand at just a glance and seeing his past fights BJ is SUPREMELY talented. I also know alot of guys at or near the top are in part motivated by desire to be the best, and in part by wanting financial reward…..BJ has only half that motivation, as he doesnt need money.
I have never once said the guy isnt a great fighter, he is. However, I also, after hearing his corner comments to him during the fight, do not feel he is pushed to his limits with his training. No matter how talented, at the top end of MMA, there is always going to be someone who can push you harder than you thought you could be pushed, if you have not had that in training, you cant deal with it as well in a fight.
As for the “media” I dont read too much of it. I go off these facts when I made my observation:
1. BJ is supremely talented, probably the best raw MMA talent ever to date.
2. His family is insanely rich
3. Alot of folks, esp around him worship him and are yes men, and maybe not as honest about his training as they should/could be.
4. The guy has never, in any fight I have seen him in, gotten behind in a fight, and come back to win. This first came about when he fought Pulver the first time. Penn should have destroyed Jens, but looked surprised that Jens wouldnt fold/back down.
5. I never said he lacked heart, I do think his lack of full efforts in training make him not take certain risks in a fight though, but that is preparation IMO, and not heart.
I dunno
maybe it’s just semantics or different definitions of the word ‘heart’….heart to me is someone that can overcome adversity..not fold under pressure….is willing to give it all to the very end…etc….and BJ doesn’t fit that IMO.
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Heart is the ability to take it and keep going and
the thing is alot of guys can take a beating and keep going. However, its more than heart IMO to take a fight that is going against you all the way and you turn it around and pull out a win. Courage and heart are pretty much the same, but the ability to completely turn a fight around is something else married to courage, poise/level headedness and supreme self confidence to go for it when it comes up. The guys who have done this (randy/Silva (both of em)/hughes/fedor/nog and a few others) tend to have a special place in alot of fans hearts and have done the frown upside down several times. Though Penn hasnt done it I would never say the guy lacked heart. Edgar, for that matter has never really been behind too much and made a comeback. But I would most definitely never say the guy lacked heart, same with Sonnen.
The ability to come back from a fight where you are getting dominated is something a hell of alot more rare than heart, I would say its the will of a champion and its pretty damned rare, and not IMO the standard for a guy showing heart. But if we are going to make the standard Nog like, well over 90% of fighters lack heart, and to me that isnt a fair assessment.
Has BJ ever won a fight in which he lost a round?
I heard that pondered on a Sherdog podcast, and it seems an interesting, if not necessarily definitive, point.
The guy is the greatest ever, then he loses and now he’s an over rated bum. Typical MMA fans.
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Oh, he was never the greatest…
"I don't care, hit him with your groin!"
by 3PA on Aug 31, 2010 6:54 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
yeah I don’t think he’s ever been at the top of anyone’s pound for pound list….ever
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by Charles Walker on Aug 31, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions

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