Anderson Silva Fighting to Survive, Not "Win"
by RearNakedPoke on Aug 15, 2010 1:04 PM EDT
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PrintThis is most certainly an issue I and many other detractors of Andersons recent form have been pushing. There is no disputing Anderson's credentials, talent, achievements or ranking. Equally it's virtually indisputable that he has been fighting to survive, not "win" in easily his past three Octagon outings. Now before I get heckled by the good internet community who smelt the salty balls of Anderson long before Chael did, Randy Couture talking to FightersOnlyMagazine would like to land professional creedance to my opinion,
"Anderson needs to look at the spirit of which he’s been competing potentially. It appears to me that he has just been doing his best not to lose instead of going out like he did early on and competing to win and take guys out.
He’s just doing enough to get by and to be successful and to keep winning and eventually that kind of fighting attitude will catch up with you, you know? You have to kind of go out, risk it, and lay it all the line. That’s just the way it is and I think Anderson has kind of strayed away from that a little bit."
The interview develops into a discussion of the UFC 117 Main Event and Coutures wish to fight Silva.
What say you though once more, my MMAForReal brethern? Are you with or against me?
The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of MMA4Real readers and do not necessarily reflect those of MMA4Real editors or staff.
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Wel
against Maia…yes.he was bullshitting….but if you don’t think he was trying to take Chael Sonnen out at the beginning of each round(before succumbing to the takedown)…you are mistaken.
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true, but only really happened after he got double legged and had his face tagged…then he realised it was imperative to engage and get off first
but, yes for obvious reasons the examples are more pertintent against Maia and Leites
"If Michael Bisping ever addresses me in public comment again, I will bury him where he stands." ~ Chael Sonnen
by RearNakedPoke on Aug 15, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
The most telling part of this saga regarding Anderson's commitment/drive/whatever
is that he has two moves that fit the classic Brazilian approach to MMA. 1. He can hit you ridiculously hard on the feet and KO most anyone when he hits them clean, and 2. He can submit you off his back if you give him the opportunity.
He doesn’t have another move. He can’t dictate where the fight takes place, and that limits him in so many ways that it actually makes his other skills somehow more impressive, considering the massive hole in his skill portfolio.
His top control is almost laughable for an upper tier fighter, and if he didn’t have that ridiculous grip strength he’d be completely helpless on the bottom. Not many people can grab a world-class wrestler’s wrist and deny him freedom. That’s special.
I think this positional control hole in his game is why he has had so many stinker performances. He just refuses to expose his own weaknesses, and before Chael nobody had punished him for refusing to engage. On the one hand, I can’t blame him for keeping his soft underbelly hidden. On the other hand, I truly do believe his time is up now that Chael has exposed said underbelly.
If I was a hungry man with a gun in my hand and some promises to keep...
I truly do believe his time is up now that Chael has exposed said underbelly.
Yeah I could see GSP move to fight him now that he saw how vulnerable Silva is to a wrestling game plan that is stuck too. Also the way Sonnen tagged him is sure to illicit excitement and a drive to succeed in Vitor who has even better hands. His time could very well be up, I too sense he might have lost that Superman quality he once had, kind of like Fedor when he lost. Silva won, but he still kind of lost.
"If Michael Bisping ever addresses me in public comment again, I will bury him where he stands." ~ Chael Sonnen
by RearNakedPoke on Aug 16, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Silva retained the championship.
I honestly wouldn’t even say that he ‘won’ the fight. He deservedly got the victory, but he got beaten in more ways than one. Not only did his body and pride take a beating, but his image and aura are all but gone.
Still an amazing fighter, but I’d be shocked if he fights Chael again. I predict a retirement rather than rematch. If Chael gets kicked out of the title picture, we’ll see Anderson again.. Otherwise, I doubt he goes in for another session of that nonsense.
At some point, the future is more important than today’s earnings, and for someone like Silva whose reputation in Brazil is probably something like a modern day combat god, beatings and losses will have compounding detrimental impacts to his long-term earning power as a spokesperson or fight camp head/gym owner.
If I was a hungry man with a gun in my hand and some promises to keep...
interesting
I don’t know would he retire but I could see him trying to duck Sonnen, kind of like this shit with his ribs…didn’t seem sore to my humble eyes when they were getting peppered but such is life… i saw him take a beating for 22 min so im pretty happy, once he Sonnen, Belfort or a LHW/HW killer next i’ll remain content and he can continue to play his games and cry me a river
"If Michael Bisping ever addresses me in public comment again, I will bury him where he stands." ~ Chael Sonnen
by RearNakedPoke on Aug 17, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey don’t forget this is not boxing. If you lose a fight or get beaten you don’t necessarily lose your long-term earning power.
Interestingly enough Silva, Shogun and the rest of the gang gets more love in the United States than in Brazil. Silva UFC 112 antics were kind of huge in Brazil that it received major media coverage. That was like a first time thing in MMA over there. There’s a reason why a legend like Wanderlei moved to the States, more love and more opportunities. Did he lose his earning power after all those UFC defeats? Is Chuck Liddell any less of an MMA icon because of his recent KO defeats. Nah, not at all.
Here’s a different spin on UFC 117 that puts Anderson Silva in a positive light. Anderson Silva, like UFC HW champion Brock Lesnar proves the Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu can save you from the jaws of defeat. Yeah, there was those failed attempts to get the submission earlier but at that last hour, the last second BJJ was victorious.
For a better spin see Silva’s recent Tatame interviews and his teacher, Noguiera’s inspirational post-fight thoughts.
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VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Aug 17, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Interesting. I didn't know that Anderson is unpopular in Brazil.
My thoughts on his decreased earning power doesn’t have to do with his MMA paychecks, those will be fine as long as he fights. I was considering his long-term franchising name power for whatever he attaches himself to, things like diet supplements, clothing lines, fight gym sponsorship/ownership and things of that nature that make up a high-profile athlete’s late-career revenues.
Things like “Retired undefeated in 14/15/16/whatever UFC fights, successfully defended his title eleventy times, the baddest man on the planet” really do make a difference to peripheral earning power. What would Fedor be without his mystique?
But if he’s not all that popular in Brazil, that lessens the weight of those considerations quite a bit.
If I was a hungry man with a gun in my hand and some promises to keep...
by misterjonez on Aug 17, 2010 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions
honestly? you really believe that man?
he didn’t have a lot to be bored about with Sonnen and i can only imagine Belfort would give him a run too…i find that hard to fathom but okay. thanks for the feedback!!
"If Michael Bisping ever addresses me in public comment again, I will bury him where he stands." ~ Chael Sonnen
by RearNakedPoke on Aug 15, 2010 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I had this huge ass reply typed up but realized I didn’t want to go all psychiatrist on the topic. Whatever the reason, the end result has been some really unappealing fights.
"I don't care, hit him with your groin!"
would have liked to see it but I digg it, i’ve done the same myself sometimes just to avoid having to explain myself lol
"If Michael Bisping ever addresses me in public comment again, I will bury him where he stands." ~ Chael Sonnen
by RearNakedPoke on Aug 15, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
i agree with you and i think i saw somewhere in that randy couture interview or longer statement
that he would agree to fight andy at 205. after jon jones anderson silva would be most scared by this matchup. lol. scared of jones yes, randy no.
I'm all about covering the spread and moneylines. Glory favors the bold. Chance favors the prepared mind. Luck, well i have that too. University of Utah goes to the Pac-12 conference in 2011. I expect them to compete immediately for the conference CG. Brock Lesnar will defeat Cain Velasquez. Womens MMA, the next big thing in sports. 3 weeks till the first game of college football. UTAH vs Pitt. September 2nd 2010.
by wolfmanshowlforever on Aug 15, 2010 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions
i could see Randy getting smoked though, but after the Chael fight I would be quite open to seeing this now and taking that risk. My only problem before was Randy has been TKO’d and this would be no better man for a repeat performance…circumstances have changed somewhat though and when Vitor and Chael have had their fun I say make this, why not eh :)
"If Michael Bisping ever addresses me in public comment again, I will bury him where he stands." ~ Chael Sonnen
by RearNakedPoke on Aug 16, 2010 7:30 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't think Randy's got an iron jaw or anything,
but it looks to me that if you’re a world-class wrestler, you only have to eat one or two shots coming in and you’ve got Anderson where you want him.
Aside from a BROCKPUNCH behind the ear, Randy hasn’t exactly been getting Chuck’d out there lately. His chin isn’t what it used to be, but he might be able to take a clean shot from Anderson on his way in without going to sleep. Once he gets a hold of Silva, the fight looks a lot like the Sonnen fight.
If I was a hungry man with a gun in my hand and some promises to keep...
hell yeah
he aint got marshmallow either don’t worry, but I just wouldn’t rate it the same as Sonnens…he should survive, and would be more likely to stop Silva with strikes too and damage him more if he got top position…
"If Michael Bisping ever addresses me in public comment again, I will bury him where he stands." ~ Chael Sonnen
by RearNakedPoke on Aug 16, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Couture is definitely tough but at this age he is not going to hold up to too much damage. See his fights against Noguiera and Brandon Vera. He suffered knock downs in both fights.
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VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Aug 17, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Right, but now that the path to victory vs. Silva has been
illuminated so well, he would replicated it as closely as he can. You wouldn’t see him standing back or working clinch striking with Anderson, you’d see him put him on the ground and pound on him.
But your point about his diminishing chin is well taken. Turns out, Randy three years ago would have destroyed Silva in predictable and career-deflating fashion. Who knew?
If I was a hungry man with a gun in my hand and some promises to keep...
by misterjonez on Aug 17, 2010 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Turns out, Randy three years ago would have destroyed Silva in predictable and career-deflating fashion.
What works well for one fighter will not necessarily work for another fighter. Randy and Jon Jones both have an excellent greco-roman wrestling pedigree. Their fights against Brandon Vera were entirely different. Jones was able to destroy and literally break Brandon Vera while many people questioned Couture’s victory.
Here’s another example. Marquardt and Silva are both considered great strikers in MMA. Marquardt was able to put Maia away in a quick fashion while Silva struggled after showing what he was capable of doing in the 1st two rounds.
Couture and Leben called Chael Sonnen a beast, a monster. It takes a special kind of competitor to be relentless and tenacious for 3 – 5 rounds.
Couture destroying Silva just because Sonnen was able to dominate Silva, not so much, not at all. We’ll see if they ever get into the ring together.
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VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Aug 23, 2010 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
I think Couture would have crushed Anderson a few years ago,
back when he could still take a shot. Nowadays, like you pointed out in the Vera fight, he has some trouble taking a decent hit.
You’re right that just because one guy does well you can’t expect another guy with a similar toolbox to do well. It’s a good point. But my reasoning was that Couture has always hadsome of the best/most effect GnP in the game, while Sonnen doesn’t usually stop people with GnP. Randy was a high-level amateur boxer, Sonnen was a high-level amateur boxer. They both have great wrestling pedigrees in GR, and they both have excellent gas tanks.
To my mind, Couture was just a bigger version of Chael. And if Chael was able to smother Anderson so effectively, I would lay good money on Randy doing it even better.
But today, Randy’s chin is crap. Anderson would have a good chance of putting him to sleep before Couture could accumulate enough damage on Anderson to turn the tide in his favor.
If I was a hungry man with a gun in my hand and some promises to keep...
by misterjonez on Aug 24, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't agree.
not “win” in easily his past three Octagon outings.
Let’s break it down.
- Griffin fight. He was excited to fight some one that was going to bring the fight to him. He didn’t fight to win, to kill, he just wanted a competitive fight.
- Maia. He bullshitted for the last 2 rounds and maybe half of the 3rd round. No one calls Maia out for butt scooting in the earlier rounds and virtually doing nothing.
- Sonnen Fight: He fought to win via Noguiera BJJ submission.
For extra credit.
Silva did not fight to win against Leites probably because his opponent did not fight.
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VEe is ANIMated!
my bad Veesis
should have read Middleweight outings, and as seen above with Kelvin the Sonnen one is contreversial but i satnd by it…we’ll agree to disagree because while he might have finished the fight it was only after he realised Sonnen was kicking his head in. He did not set out that way.
As for the Maia fight, he will be the last person I will ever blame for that abomination. It just ain’t going to happen. I will not not entertain it. Sorry Chief :)
"If Michael Bisping ever addresses me in public comment again, I will bury him where he stands." ~ Chael Sonnen
by RearNakedPoke on Aug 16, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Cool.
Just an observation of Silva vs Leben and maybe a stretch.
I don’t think Silva went for the kill in that fight. Leben went for the kill, missed most of his shots and was getting hit with pure pin-point counter shots. There was a brief moment when Silva could have easily finished Leben off but gave Chris some real breathing room. Rogan or Goldberg wondered if Silva was playing with fire by not finishing Leben off completely. Silva basically did his little cat and mouse thing and then decided to put Leben title shot opportunity to an end.
While he produced a highlight reel finish, it wasn’t like he was going for the kill. For the most part I don’t think Silva is the kind of dude to risk it or lay it on the line. It’s all about the calculated risk
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VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Aug 16, 2010 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
good fight
though if he had hit Maia with even half of that shit he’d have killed him…look what Marquardt did to him. Silva didn’t even bother countering him in the latter rounds…
"If Michael Bisping ever addresses me in public comment again, I will bury him where he stands." ~ Chael Sonnen
by RearNakedPoke on Aug 16, 2010 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
How did he loose his “aura” he went out there and pulled a Nog (like Vees said above) I think it ads to the legend that is Silva, you can go out there and give him everything in your bag and you can beat him in every way you can think of and you still loose. That’s pretty fucking badass. Anyway let Andy fight Vitor some time next year and we’ll see what’s up.
Ride the Tiger!
by doonerthesooner on Aug 18, 2010 3:54 PM EDT reply actions
its a matter of opinion
i just made the same remark to Kelvin in another thread that I rather a fighter dominating. It’s complete. I think Big Nog is a talented idiot. Good for him that he can throw up a hailmary sub after taking a hiding, it’s not something that appeals to me though. Neither is Anderson taking a hiding and then capitalizing on sloppy over agressive behaviour from Chael…I admire the skill involved in pulling off the sub but at the same time it ain’t no flying armbar. It was being begged for. He lost the fight and won the war. Good for him. I won’t being blowing trumpet though… GSP is surely the P4P King now as well. He has to be. And deservedly so. Aint no top contender damaged him like that in ages…son goes out and takes peoples souls.
that is how you fight. You dominate someones will. [Just my opinion. To each their own.]
"If Michael Bisping ever addresses me in public comment again, I will bury him where he stands." ~ Chael Sonnen
by RearNakedPoke on Aug 18, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Great post.
I like the fight/war line. I’m actually surprised I haven’t seen it before now, good call.
I’ve always felt like Nog was someone who consistently outperformed his abillities, but I never really held it against him since he did it a handful of times in critical situations. Anderson has done this pretty much once, which makes it fluky in my mind more than impressive.
Impressive would be coming out and flattening Sonnen in R1 of the rematch.
If I was a hungry man with a gun in my hand and some promises to keep...
by misterjonez on Aug 19, 2010 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s simply what I believe in, its why the joke goes “You should see the other guy”. Nice to see and hear someone on the same wavelength too. And yes your last line is perfect.
"If Michael Bisping ever addresses me in public comment again, I will bury him where he stands." ~ Chael Sonnen
by RearNakedPoke on Aug 19, 2010 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Well Chael did come out of that fight with his face more fucked up than Andy's
But I agree with you to an extent, even some one as good as Anderson isn’t going to go out there and dominate every one every time we just got spoiled. And Andy does have like ten more fights than GSP and only two more losses. I mean Anderson is used to going out there and being so much better than his opponent, this time it didn’t go down like that and he still pulled off the victory.
Ride the Tiger!
by doonerthesooner on Aug 20, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Aside from the cut, I think Anderson was more fucked up than Chael.
The reason you couldn’t see it as clearly is because Anderson has that beautiful, dark, leathery skin that all fighters would kill for. But look at this bumps all over his face. He’s asymmetrical for the first time I can ever remember.
If we could see the purple, there’s no doubt in my mind that Anderson would have looked more fucked up than Chael. But Chael did get the nasty cut.
If I was a hungry man with a gun in my hand and some promises to keep...
Note re: GSP
He said that the reason it ended up a five-round decision vs. Dan Hardy was because of technical failings (read: deficient technique) that allowed Dan Hardy to escape his submission attempts.
Ya know, in this regard
I’d count Fedor in the same category of “his legend came through his incredible ability to find a way to win the MOMENT you mess up.”
Then again, compared to American wrestling… isn’t jiu-jitsu in MMA at the highest level along those lines too?
By the way, have a different look at Silva vs. Sonnen :) http://manabelldo.exblog.jp/13135073/
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