Loss does not tarnish Emelianenko's long-term greatness
by Matt Bishop on Jun 27, 2010 3:23 PM EDT
Email
Print
I was doing some cleaning Sunday afternoon and happened to come upon a stack of old ESPN The Magazines from 2007.
After flipping through a couple, I happened upon a Bill Simmons column entitled: "Remember greatness, because someday, someone will try to tell you it wasn't." All I could think of is, "Wow, how appropriate."
In the column, Simmons details the stats of NBA great John Havlicek and how he is seemingly a forgotten man in the shuffle of all-time NBA greats. Simmons asks, "Does greatness have a shelf live?"
Simmons was referring to 20-30 years down the line, but in a sport like mixed martial arts, which doesn't even have that much history period, things are viewed and skewed a little differently.
Now, of course, all this is relevant because of Fedor Emelianenko's submission loss to Fabricio Werdum last night at "Strikeforce/M-1 Global: Fedor vs. Werdum" at HP Pavilion in San Jose, Calif.
Although I don't think it's fair to compare Emelianenko's career in the sphere of mixed martial arts to Havlicek's NBA career, because Emelianenko clearly is at the top of the game, the title of Simmons' column already is ringing true because people already are downgrading Emelianenko because of one loss.
This is one of my greatest pet peeves about sports fans, and more particularly mixed martial arts fans. I have never seen bigger bandwagon jumpers in my time as a lifelong sports fan than those "fans" of mixed martial arts fighters.
People were touting Gegard Mousasi as the next big thing in mixed martial arts. He loses one fight (one that was an incredibly bad matchup for him) and now he sucks and you have not heard a single word about him in the last two months.
The list goes on and on and on and will continue to go on. And guess what? Good fighters rebound. How many people wrote Mauricio Rua off after losing to Forrest Griffin and beating Mark Coleman? Now look where he is.
The person Shogun rebounded off of, Lyoto Machida, now sucks and is overrated because he got knocked out in the first round. Chuck Liddell was a product of his matchups. Tito Ortiz is a never-was. I could go on and on.
MMA fans like to deal in revisionist history, either ignorant of what happened in the past or just unwilling to accept a loss from their "favorite" fighter.
Emelianenko's loss doesn't erase the fact that he is the top heavyweight of all time without question. That is not even up for debate. He beat the No. 2 and No. 3 best heavyweights of all time (Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira and Mirko CroCop) decisively. And right now, he is without question the greatest mixed martial artist of all time. Will that be the case in five years? Ten years? Chances are no, because people currently blazing their own trail (Anderson Silva and Georges St-Pierre, namely) aren't done yet. But right now, on June 27, 2010, Fedor Emelianenko is the best of all-time. Saturday's loss doesn't change that fact.
What's important to remember, is that no matter what happens to Emelianenko going forward, is that he was the most dominant mixed martial artist of this era. The loss of "perfection" shouldn't define Emelianenko's career, nor should it have people running for the hills because they can't get far enough away from the bandwagon. The man lost, and no matter where you rank him, it doesn't take away from the fact that he has had one of the greatest careers in MMA history.
29 comments
|
4 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Excellent post, Matt
I’ll add that people were desperate to knock down Fedor prior to the loss for reasons that make no sense. I mean, people disparaged him simply because he never fought under the UFC banner.
For the life of me, I can’t understand why people have bought into Dana White’s propaganda against Fedor for the past two years. It goes back to this weird idolatrous view some people have of him that frankly is unique among presidents of billion dollar companies (except for Steve Jobs). People defend White like he’s their brother, and if he has something invested in Fedor losing then so do they.
But enough ranting. Fedor is the GOAT with Silva and GSP in hot pursuit.
Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
by Anthony Pace on Jun 27, 2010 3:40 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
This from the dude that dropped him to #9 P4P below the likes of Frankie Edgar and Jake Shields.
Man, that’d be like me pissing into a box of kittens, then going to a PETA meeting and talking about how much I hate animal abuse.
Live previews and reviews of all major fights!
LightsOutRadio.com
Fuck PETA
I’d take the box of kittens into PETA and piss on it in front of them.
But you’re shifting goal posts here. I’ve always said Fedor’s legacy is firmly secured and this loss doesn’t hurt it at all. His dip in the rankings doesnt affect that stance at all. Hell, he’s still a top-5 heavyweight.
If you’re so pissed I don’t group Fedor with Silva and GSP at the moment, why dont you make the case for why he’s still in thick with those two?
Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
by Anthony Pace on Jun 28, 2010 1:32 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I'm no fan of PETA either, but don't piss on kittens.. they get CRAZY
See, the thing is that I don’t need to make a case for him, I just need to make the case against dropping him. Imagine if at some point GSP had gotten caught by the knee from hell by Hardy, and that smashed his face and put him out. Would people be hopping on this bandwagon of “OMG HIS ENTIRE CAREER HAS BEEN A SHAM, DELIST HIM NOW!”? I don’t think so. The point is that a single loss doesn’t annihlate a fighter’s career, be it short term or otherwise, and that ungodly shift in the P4P rankings was completely unjustified. If you want to drop him that’s cool, same in HW, but that’s a big big drop for a loss that’s completely understandable.
Live previews and reviews of all major fights!
LightsOutRadio.com
It's a loss, you drop after a loss
Fact of life. But at no point have I ever called his career a “sham”… I still think he’s currently the GOAT.
Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
by Anthony Pace on Jun 28, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, you do drop after a loss
But you don’t drop from top-three to number nine is my point.
Live previews and reviews of all major fights!
LightsOutRadio.com
I completely agree. I think this is a good lesson for MMA and MMA fans (because frankly, Fedor fans are some of the most annoying ones).
Now there’s no mythical monster out there – just this pudgy Russian who beat some of the absolute best the sport had to offer (and padded his record with some freak fights as well). I’d absolutely get behind him being the best HW of all time – greatest mixed martial artist of all time too, but with the reservation that he’ll get overtaken very soon.
"I don't care, hit him with your groin!"
Best piece post fight so far.
there is however one stciking point for me,
People were touting Gegard Mousasi as the next big thing in mixed martial arts. He loses one fight (one that was an incredibly bad matchup for him) and now he sucks
I see nothing wrong with the change in fan perception of him post-fight. I was on that bandwagon before realising i’d caught the wrong bus. My humble take on it would be, yes he was a very exciting prospect (for future greatness) heading into the fight but in that fight he offered sweet f**k all to Lawal essentially in the form of opposition. So, as a direct result of his demonstration of his ability i have struck him from the register of “Future Great” or “P4P”…he didn’t lose a razor thin decision, he completely sucked and wasn’t up to scratch (not even his cardio was). He earned his spot in the corner. Fedor has not, and should still be paraded (tastefully) around for the glorious fighter that he remains and is proven as. Mousasi was trying to pove it and didn’t, Fedor was trying to extend his greatness further…i believe there’s a difference
"Be yourself, don't take anyone's shit, and never let them take you alive." ~ George Way
Agreed, mostly...
The thing with Mousasi is that if he sucks in his next fight, then I think you have a case to bury him. But as of right now, it’s one off night, not a trend, ya know?
yeah i digg what you’re saying and see what you’re getting at (i think)! I still think he’s a good fighter, but, i used to think he was a great fighter who could go even farther in terms of excellence! those thoughts are buried, for me anyway. but his status as a contender is in the balance alright!
"Be yourself, don't take anyone's shit, and never let them take you alive." ~ George Way
by RearNakedPoke on Jun 27, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
ehh
Mousasi and Fedor are in different leagues though….Mousasi didn’t beat anyone to get to where he was rankings wise…a washed up Babalu….I knew he’d lose to a good wrestler…..whereas Fedor was THE best….
http://www.mmaforreal.com
Follow Me On Twitter@MMA4Real
by Kelvin Hunt on Jun 28, 2010 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree that a loss or even a few losses shouldn’t tarnish a fighter’s legacy. However, Fedor has some shady matches on his record and this loss rightfully raises some questions. It is not like Fedor has always fought contenders even after he won a championship. When you start looking at the freakshow matches, matches against fighters not even close to contendership and fights against freaking middleweights Fedor’s legacy begins to look a little murky.
┌∩┐(◕_◕)┌∩┐
huh?
Wasn’t his legacy earned and won tooth and claw in the Pride crucible in Nogeuira’s guard and up in CroCop’s grill or am i distinctly missing something? I never heard anyone championing a win over Hong Man Choi as rite to a legacy… but maybe im missing something here…
"Be yourself, don't take anyone's shit, and never let them take you alive." ~ George Way
by RearNakedPoke on Jun 27, 2010 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
sure the overall 31-2 is a bit watered down
but Arona>Babalu>Schilt>Herring>Noguiera x2>Mark Coleman (the first one)>Kevin Randleman>Cro Cop>Sylvia>Arlovksi>Rogers is a decade-spanning hit-list of fighters at the top during their heyday, and he fought them all in their prime
Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
by Anthony Pace on Jun 27, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
What if...
Fedor just didn’t fight instead of fighting Choi, Zulu, Lindland, etc? He still beat those guys, regardless of how you might have perceived their chances. That counts for something.
Really, the only person Fedor should’ve faced that he didn’t up to this point was/is Josh Barnett. And it’s not his fault that fight fell apart. Realistically, fights with Couture and Lesnar (probably the only two UFC guys he should’ve fought) are the only ones missing, and those were long shots of happening.
Again, you can downgrade his opposition based on what they are now, but Sylvia was top-10, Arlovski was No. 2 in many places and Rogers and Werdum was top-10. He’s fought the best competition available to him the past two years, I don’t think that can be denied.
He’s fought the best competition available to him the past two years, I don’t think that can be denied.
Can’t argue with anything you said but the above qualification could be posed as much a result of Fedor’s stoicness in the face of the unmerciful UFC as it was the fault of the “strong armed Russian(s)” but thats for a different day/thread…
"Be yourself, don't take anyone's shit, and never let them take you alive." ~ George Way
by RearNakedPoke on Jun 27, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
exactly
I still think he’ll face Barnett, however.
If you take out the Zulu and Choi type fights, prior to last night he’d still have been like 22-1 or something ridiculous.
The only fight I’m sorry we missed out on was the Randy fight, because it seemed like that had a real chance of happening. It never seemed like a deal would be in place to get him in with Lesnar, and even then Brock is coming in on the downward sloping arc of Fedor’s career
Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
by Anthony Pace on Jun 27, 2010 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Brock is coming in on the downward sloping arc of Fedor’s career
Very true, it’s unquestionable. Might i pose to you though that as a Lesnar fan i could equally say he’s coming into said hypothetical fight rather green so isn’t it essentially a trade-off?! It’s like (dare i say) cushioning your fighter in the eventuality (however likely) of a loss… Basically i don’t buy into that :)
"Be yourself, don't take anyone's shit, and never let them take you alive." ~ George Way
by RearNakedPoke on Jun 27, 2010 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
it's a fair point to make
Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
by Anthony Pace on Jun 27, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
look how competitive Couture was [and i don’t believe he holds a candle (or ever did) to Fedor!] !!
I think Fedor would pose a serious threat to Lesnar with his craftiness much the same as Lesnars strength does to Fedor! but in my humble opinion thats the tradeoff in every fight, you have weaknesses you have strengths who’s are lesser/greater decides the result essentially…
Whatever Brian Maye (lol) would have you believe Fedor would stand a better chance anyway and to my mind that by extent would then be a serious chance…
"Be yourself, don't take anyone's shit, and never let them take you alive." ~ George Way
by RearNakedPoke on Jun 27, 2010 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Just a note on Havlicek...
When he retired:
1,269 games played (1st all-time)
172 playoff games played (1st all-time)
Only player to score 1,000 points in sixteen straight seasons
26,895 points (3rd all-time)
46,407 minutes played (2nd all-time)
13 straight All-Star appearances
Four All-NBA first teams
Seven All-NBA second teams
8 championships (8-0 in NBA Finals)
1974 Finals MVP
Awarded one of the 11 spots on the NBA’s thirty-fifth anniversary team in 1980
But how many people know who Havlicek is now? How many people that DO know him just dismiss him as being good in his era and that he “couldn’t play” today?
This is much like Alexander Karelin’s loss to Rulon Gardner. No one in their right mind could say that Gardner was a better wrestler. Yet so many people discredit Karelin as not being natural and having cheated through the use of steroids during his formative years(despite the fact that he passed every drug test he ever took). It seems that people have a hard time buying into some one who truly stands out as great, Tyson is another example as well of someone who was amazing at his career during his early years which have now seem to be forgotten.
by Kevin M. Hamrick on Jun 27, 2010 9:16 PM EDT reply actions
Welcome to the site, Kevin!
Hope you enjoy what you see here!
by Matt Bishop on Jun 27, 2010 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions
If I could rec this story I would
In the past day, I’ve seen a lot more Fedor bashing than I expected. Our own RDS has him dropped from #2 down to #9 following a single loss. Two days ago, the band wagon for Fedor was full, and today it’s not looking so great. And over what? The man suffered a single loss to a quality opponent. When GSP lost to Serra, there were murmurs about him being a headcase, but that went away in a hurry. I seriously hope that the same happens here, because the heavyweight landscape is heavy in the top five (which Fedor is still a member of), but pretty dreadful after you get to #11.
Live previews and reviews of all major fights!
LightsOutRadio.com
The upsets happened at different stages of their careers though.
GSP 15th fight, age 26. Not much in the way of accumulated damage (the only fight that springs to mind is the first fight against BJ)
Fedor 35th fight, age 33. At least a moderate amount of accumulated damage.
^ That’s just for consideration.
"I don't care, hit him with your groin!"
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on MMA For Real
Related FanShots on MMA For Real
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
