The Pound-for-Pound #1 Pound-for-Pound Rankings
by Anthony Pace on Jun 27, 2010 2:00 PM EDT
48 comments
Everyone and their mother knows why it’s time to update this one.
1. Anderson Silva
2. Georges St. Pierre
3. Mauricio "Shogun" Rua
4. Jose Aldo
5. BJ Penn
6. Frankie Edgar
7. Jake Shields
8. Fabricio Werdum
9. Fedor Emelianenko
10. Lyoto Machida
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I'm open to arguments for putting him higher, but he ain't in my top 3 anymore. I think the only people I may have overrated are Werdum and Aldo. Also, everyone outside the top 2 are separated by millimeters.
Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
by Anthony Pace on Jun 27, 2010 2:26 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
you should be happy he is even at No.9 he hasn't had a relevant fight lately and when he does against Werdum he gets destroyed in 2 minutes.
"Being challenged in life is inevitable, being defeated is optional." - Roger Crawford.
Just wondering
When was Werdum ever in the P4P top-ten? And since when does a single loss drop someone in rankings from top-3 down to number 9?
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Like I said to Matt
Outside the top 2 I have everyone so close that the difference is almost negligible. He could easily be at four, I just barely convinced myself otherwise while making the rankings
Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
by Anthony Pace on Jun 27, 2010 2:29 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, the only thing I know is that Fedor absolutely can’t be placed above Werdum after getting tapped.
"I don't care, hit him with your groin!"
Eh, that's some MMA math that doesn't work
Especially when you consider that of the four people who beat Werdum, Fedor beat two of them.
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Oh right
Because rankings exist in a bubble where the past doesn’t mean anything.
Werdum went 2-2 in the UFC, almost got KO’d by Mike Kyle, was previously ranked #9 at heavyweight, and he gets one win and you want him placed above the dude that has been concensus top-three for ages because he caught him in a triangle.
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Basically. I’m willing to make a thourough analyis, but the bottomline is this: Can’t rank a guy who gets decisively beaten above the guy who decisively beats him.
"I don't care, hit him with your groin!"
Dude, that’s MMA math, and it doesn’t work.
Fact: Werdum beat Fedor. Arlovski and Nog both beat Werdum. Fedor beat both Arlovski and Werdum. So by your way of thinking this is how the math works:
Werdum > Fedor > Arlovski/Nog > Werdum > Fedor > Arlovski/Nog….
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Not applying MMA math at all, I worded that a little clumsy though
Arlovski is not the same man he was. Nog is not the same man he was. Fedor is not the same man he was. Werdum is not the same man he was.
Because things change as the years go by. People’s skills improve. Peoples skills degenerate. This win, at this moment in time, ranks Werdum above Fedor – and above Arlovski + Nog as well. Despite having losses to them.
Frank Edgar deserves to be ranked above Gray Maynard as well.
"I don't care, hit him with your groin!"
Dude, Arlovski has always been the same
And this isn’t some situation where these guys have turned into different people when they fought the opponents I’m bringing up. Yeah, today Nog isn’t what he was, but his fights with Werdum/Fedor happened in the same time frame. Same with Arlovski. Did the fights happen last week? No, but they didn’t happen a decade ago either.
For the love of god man, Fedor got caught in a triangle and tapped. He wasn’t in some fifteen minute grappling battle where he was clowned, and he didn’t get pistol whipped bell to bell by some scrub striker. He got subbed by one of the best BJJ practitioners on the planet, and now you want to demote him like he’s on a losing streak.
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And yet its hard for me to put Werdum on the list
Same goes for Edgar… something makes it seem weird.
I’ve got Fitch and Evans hovering just outside the top 10 with Cruz and Benavidez still floating around in my head
Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
by Anthony Pace on Jun 27, 2010 2:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
good stuff
saw the title, thought it was something insightful and then realised it was a work of satire. and a very good one at that.
would be interesting Kelvin if you could throw up a proper one though where Jake Shields and Frankie Edgar dont out rank Fedor and Machida…
"Be yourself, don't take anyone's shit, and never let them take you alive." ~ George Way
I just can’t justify putting Werdum ahead of Fedor, much like I don’t think you could put Serra above GSP back then (although, to be fair, Werdum >>>>>> Serra).
I’ve never been a fan of P4P rankings. It’s so difficult to figure this stuff out across weight classes. But here’s how I would do it, I think…
1) Georges St-Pierre
2) Anderson Silva
3) BJ Penn
4) Fedor Emelianenko
5) Mauricio Rua
6) Jose Aldo
7) Lyoto Machida
8) Jake Shields
9) Jon Fitch
10) Frankie Edgar
That's more like it
But to be perfectly honest, I think ranking past #5 at this point is a little goofy.
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yeah, it all gets muddled past the top 3 or so for me
but these lists, while really not doing much, encourage some really good debate
Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
by Anthony Pace on Jun 27, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
But this backlash on Fedor for losing? Man, it’s gotta stop.
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oh, I agree
I’m not saying he’s a can or anything, he’s just in been brought down to earth a bit and I can’t keep him in the same pocket with GSP and Silva right now. He can definitely come back up, though
Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
by Anthony Pace on Jun 27, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
oh my...
Delicious.
You’re on fire tonight Matt. No arguments here. Thanks for posting.
"Be yourself, don't take anyone's shit, and never let them take you alive." ~ George Way
by RearNakedPoke on Jun 27, 2010 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
but
Werdum just subbed a guy in the top 3 of the P4P, whereas Frankie squeaked out a disputable decision victory.
Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
by Anthony Pace on Jun 27, 2010 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I allow a little more subjectivity to “pound for pound” rankings than I do for division rankings (just because the whole pound for pound idea is a little more subjective). I would have no problem ranking Fedor above Werdum on the pound for pound top 10 (wouldn’t even have Werdum in it), but I’d put Werdum above Fedor right now in the heavyweight rankings. Just my take.
I have BJ above Frankie in my P4P list, but Frankie above BJ on the lightweight rankings because of the nature of the loss. Frankie is the champ, but I scored the fight for BJ. There’s no disputing last night’s outcome.
Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
by Anthony Pace on Jun 27, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I know numbers can be skewed any way, but the stat nerd in me wanted to do a brief comparsion with 3 of the best I’ve seen in the sport. Here’s the stats for their most recent body of work (last 10 fights):
Last 10 fights:
Anderson Silva 10-0 (6 TKOs,2 Subs)
80.8% combined career opponents win percentage in those 10 fights
4 wins against guys formerly considered # 1 in their weight class
0 wins against fighters with losing records
Georges St. Pierre 9-1 (3 TKOs,1 Sub)
78.8% combined career opponents win percentage in those 10 fights
5 wins against guys formerly considered # 1 in their weight class
0 wins against fighters with losing records
Fedor Emelianenko 9-1 (2 TKOs,6 Subs)
70.9% combined career opponents win percentage in those 10 fights
2 wins against fighters with losing records (including a win against a 7-6 fighter)
i see what you have there...
impressive Rich ;)
"Be yourself, don't take anyone's shit, and never let them take you alive." ~ George Way
by RearNakedPoke on Jun 27, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
good stats
But check out that discrepancy in the finish ration between GSP and the other two, Silva and Fedor have finished twice as many guys. And I’m willing to bet Silva could have finished off Maia and Leites in the first round of both fights if he really wanted to
Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
by Anthony Pace on Jun 27, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not going to get wrapped up in who finishes fights, etc.
As for the opponent winning percentage, Fedor’s is a product of Japan. You can’t hold it against him that the promoters were making business decisions because those fights would be attractions. I can’t imagine it was very easy for them to get opponents for him, either.
Because of the nature of them holding titles (and the titles meaning a lot), Silva and GSP have opponents lined up for them who are naturally going to have good records. In MMA, you are a product of the system and your environment.
If you look at his last 10 with discounting the Zulu and Choi fights, those two are replaced by the Khosaka Vengence fight and the rematch with Noguiera.
His record is bloated by the “Japan” fights, but it doens’t change his percentage much. Just like if you throw out the fights Floyd Mayweather should never have had, his win percentage doesn’t change though his record is a lot smaller than 41-0.
Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
by Anthony Pace on Jun 27, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I don’t think there is any arguing that Fedor is the best heavyweight of all time (though I consider that one of the weaker divisions, personally). He’s also one of the best fighters I’ve ever seen and one of my personal favorites. But I do see why it was a source of frustration to people that, in his last 10 fights, he has faced two guys with losing records, a 7-6 guy and a guy that competes freakin’ two weight classes below heavyweight. So in other words, in his last 10 fights he’s 4-1 against guys that weren’t insulting opponents or middleweights. Still, the guy is a legend and I think you have to look at total body of work. He’s one of the greatest ever, no question, and I know there is a context for why he took some of the fights that he did. But I can see where frustration would come in.
2 years from now future pound 4 pound
1.jon jones
2.josh koscheck
3.alan belcher definitely a man that will be known world wide even though he has a blurred tattoo. tom lawlor has three ugly tattoos
4. brock lesnar
5. evan dunham
6.jose aldo
7. rashad evans
8. cain velasquez
9.josh grispi
10,.nate marquardt
some biases and loyalty factors might have shaped this top ten. jon jones will definitely be #1 though.
I'm all about covering the spread and moneylines. Fedor: He once had an awkward moment in the cage, just to see what it feels like. Sharks have a week dedicated to him. He would show his feminine side if he had one. He is a lover, not a fighter, but don't get any ideas. He is the most important man in the world. Stay thirsty my comrades b/c i will never fight in the UFC. Sorry Fedor but in America Budweiser is the King of beers and Lesnar is a clydesdale while Fedor is just a mule. Losing to Werdum proves what i have been saying. He is pudgy and is on the donwnside of his career just like his contempararies in pride like mirko cro cop and noguiera Beat Lesnar, Carwin. JDS, Velasquez or Overeem and i'll be impressed. Just one of them. College Football is still the best sport out there.
by wolfmanshowlforever on Jun 27, 2010 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ll take that bet against Alan Belcher being one of the top 3 fighters on the planet within 2 years.
the only bets i know online are signature bets. he is just a guy a pull for anyway.
i do think he has a shot at the middleweight title once anderson silva goes to 205. as you consider the heavyweights the weaker division i consider the middleweight division the weakest. how about a sig bet that he will have the middleweight title somtime in that timespan. that is fair. he would have to beat marquardt, maia maybe jake shields to get there. something like that.
I'm all about covering the spread and moneylines. Fedor: He once had an awkward moment in the cage, just to see what it feels like. Sharks have a week dedicated to him. He would show his feminine side if he had one. He is a lover, not a fighter, but don't get any ideas. He is the most important man in the world. Stay thirsty my comrades b/c i will never fight in the UFC. Sorry Fedor but in America Budweiser is the King of beers and Lesnar is a clydesdale while Fedor is just a mule. Losing to Werdum proves what i have been saying. He is pudgy and is on the donwnside of his career just like his contempararies in pride like mirko cro cop and noguiera Beat Lesnar, Carwin. JDS, Velasquez or Overeem and i'll be impressed. Just one of them. College Football is still the best sport out there.
by wolfmanshowlforever on Jun 27, 2010 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions
agreed
I'm all about covering the spread and moneylines. Fedor: He once had an awkward moment in the cage, just to see what it feels like. Sharks have a week dedicated to him. He would show his feminine side if he had one. He is a lover, not a fighter, but don't get any ideas. He is the most important man in the world. Stay thirsty my comrades b/c i will never fight in the UFC. Sorry Fedor but in America Budweiser is the King of beers and Lesnar is a clydesdale while Fedor is just a mule. Losing to Werdum proves what i have been saying. He is pudgy and is on the donwnside of his career just like his contempararies in pride like mirko cro cop and noguiera Beat Lesnar, Carwin. JDS, Velasquez or Overeem and i'll be impressed. Just one of them. College Football is still the best sport out there.
by wolfmanshowlforever on Jun 27, 2010 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Downey, I usually enjoy your writing.
This is just disgusting though. Frankie Edgar is a better P4P fighter then Fedor Emelianenko? Seriously?
Like I said above, its almost negligible the difference between guys outside the top-2. but let me ask you this... who's had the better past 12 months between them?
Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
by Anthony Pace on Jun 27, 2010 8:06 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
That's the problem with the P4P rankings.
What is the criteria used to determine the order? If it’s the best last twelve months then any fighter who has had a good year should be up there. To me, that’s crazy. I rank P4P by asking myself this…..if weight wasn’t an issue, who would beat who?
by Geno Mrosko on Jun 27, 2010 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions
P4P is entirely theoretical
Everyone has their own view. Let me put it to you this way: Alabama loses to Arkansas in a landslide this upcoming football season. Alabama is still the better team, but I guarantee Arkansas is ranked higher when the ballot comes out the next week
Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
by Anthony Pace on Jun 28, 2010 1:26 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Siyar Bahadurzada's take:
U wouldnt call Werdum pound for pound the best, but he is definitely “ground for ground” one of the best! lol
via twitter
by capital L on Jun 27, 2010 7:31 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
lmao
"Be yourself, don't take anyone's shit, and never let them take you alive." ~ George Way
by RearNakedPoke on Jun 28, 2010 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions
1) Anderson Silva
2) GSP
3) Shogun
4) Jake Shields
5) BJ Penn
6) Jose Aldo
7) Fedor
8) Lyoto Machida
9) Nick Diaz
10) Werdum or Overeem
"Being challenged in life is inevitable, being defeated is optional." - Roger Crawford.
beat it, beat it no one likes to be defeated. it's just someone's poll how can it be criminal?
maybe in your city the police have nothing to do but watch out for p4p lists and decide they don’t coincide with there’s. arrest that man and throw him in the brig!
I'm all about covering the spread and moneylines. Fedor: He once had an awkward moment in the cage, just to see what it feels like. Sharks have a week dedicated to him. He would show his feminine side if he had one. He is a lover, not a fighter, but don't get any ideas. He is the most important man in the world. Stay thirsty my comrades b/c i will never fight in the UFC. Sorry Fedor but in America Budweiser is the King of beers and Lesnar is a clydesdale while Fedor is just a mule. Losing to Werdum proves what i have been saying. He is pudgy and is on the donwnside of his career just like his contemporaries in pride like mirko cro cop and noguiera Beat Lesnar, Carwin. JDS, Velasquez or Overeem and i'll be impressed. Just one of them. College Football is still the best sport out there.
by wolfmanshowlforever on Jun 28, 2010 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
what are you talking about?
"Being challenged in life is inevitable, being defeated is optional." - Roger Crawford.
by JamPark on Jun 28, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
lol wut
Inhale deep, like the words of my breath—I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death
by Anthony Pace on Jun 28, 2010 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions
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Diaz is going to fight at an event planned for Oct. 9 currently dubbed "Strikeforce: San Jose." But he will compete welterweight, and Miller is not his opponent.
Instead, recent winner K.J. Noons, who defeated Diaz nearly three years ago for the EliteXC lightweight title, is expected to get a shot at belt.
UPDATE by Matt Bishop [8/25/10 at 1:13 p.m. ET]: It's official via a Strikeforce press release and they have offered some quotes.
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Offered Diaz: "I’m sorry about what happened in the cage afterward, but I didn’t start it. His guys were talking (expletive) to us.’’
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