The Crafting of a Reputation: Fedor and the GSP Conundrum
by Anthony Pace on Mar 30, 2010 1:55 PM EDT
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I’ve let the hullabaloo over George St. Pierre’s performance on Saturday night against Dan Hardy gestate for a few days, hoping to let some kind of consensus emerge and see what sort of climate he’s created for fans. Although not as volatile as it seemed to be immediately after UFC 111, fan opinion seems to have congealed into the judgment that although GSP completely outclassed and dominated Hardy, his lack of a finish against the outmatched Brit was lackluster and his position on the pound-for-pound totem pole is in flux.
My reflection on the pound-for-pound status has drawn me to one comparison above others, that of St. Pierre and Fedor Emlianenko. More than any other fighter on that list including BJ Penn and Anderson Silva, we’ve witnessed the Russian great take on his greatest challenges with an audacity not previously nor since witnessed. This characteristic is essentially the opposite end of the spectrum from where GSP’s recent criticism exists.
St. Pierre has fought three straight opponents who pose great threats on the feet (Penn, Thiago Alves, and Dan Hardy) and each time he has spent the majority of the time in each fight grinding out his opponents with peerless wrestling and relentless work from top-control. The Penn fight discounted, however, GSP hasn’t "finished" a fight since his 2008 victory over Matt Serra in their rematch (here I’m strictly considering "finishing" as the referee having to step in and stop the fight).
In addition to the three aforementioned wins, the welterweight champ owns a decision over Jon Fitch; although it’s a decision, it can be considered the last time St. Pierre attacked an opponent’s strength head on even if he didn’t earn the stoppage. With the grappler Fitch, GSP brutalized his opponent and that Fitch was still standing at the end of he fight is a testament to his own toughness and resilience.
But it’s the fact that St. Pierre has chosen to forgo any risk in these last few fights that has drawn the ire of fans. Because he is capable of imposing his will in the fight, he makes them into wrestling matches and battles of "positional dominance". He doles out punishment, but it simply hasn’t been spectacular. It’s smart, but unpopular. The one thing that separates GSP from a guy like the un-beloved Jon Fitch is that the champ is at least constantly working toward a finish, unlike "The Human Blanket" Fitch.
And this brings me to Fedor. Setting aside his recent reputation as a "promotion killer", the Last Emperor has a cemented reputation as the greatest heavyweight and possibly the greatest mixed martial artist of all time. In what is basically an undefeated career, we’ve seen Fedor go tit-for-tat with true greats at their own game, always coming away victorious. He had a kickboxing match with Cro Cop and his hand was raised. He played in the guard of Noguiera and was victorious. It’s this willingness to throw caution to the wind, to say to a critic "I don’t care if he’s ‘better’ than me at something on paper, I’ll go in to his comfort zone and destroy him."
It might be reckless abandon, but it could be the difference between being on MMA’s Mount Rushmore and having a state park named after you.
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thanks Charles
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Mar 30, 2010 4:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
good stuff
ya i wont knock GSP for wanting to win at all costs and safely, BUT
Fedor is the man. You wanna be P4P King, then beat people at their own game like the Last Emperor. I mean even Silva doesnt put himself in danger… i lose care for St. Pierre with every growing fight. Ya he’s a beast. Ya he’s sensible. Ya he’s smart. Ya he can wrestle. But
what the fuck does fighting in your comfort zone prove? I couldn’t careless if this continues… if the submissions dont work, fine. Beat his face in. work harder but by god at least convince me you care somewhat for the fans…
"No, no- we've got to sacrifice the whole virgin thing. Instead we hand out rubbers that say 'We Salute George Michael' " ~ Gob Bluth
Michael Bluth: Could it be love?
Gob Bluth: I know what an erection feels like, Michael. No, it’s the opposite. It’s... it’s like my heart is getting hard.
Not sold on Fedor
I really don’t see why everyone is so pro Fedor, ya he wins fights, but I am not that impressed with the competition he is facing. Ya sure he fought Noguiera, who just lost in the first round by referee stoppage at UFC 110, or Cro Cop who was bested at his own game with a vicious leg kick by Gonzaga. Not to mention the inferior league that he is signed with. I think if he were to go to the UFC, he would do like almost every other Pride fighter has done……LOSE! This is probably why he doesn’t fight in the UFC, to protect his image. Still, until he faces the highest level of talent, I don’t know why he is even in any sort of talks about best P4P fighter. Clearly that title belongs to either GSP or The Spider. NO ONE is dismantling their opponents they way they are, whether by referee stoppage or not, a win is still a win. If people don’t want to be subjected to GSP’s take down’s and the ground and pound, then for God’s sake learn to stop the take down. Easier said then done right, I mean Dan Hardy going into that fight was 68% at avoiding the take down. Like Joe Rogan said, its not that Dan Hardy is bad at defending the take down, it’s that GSP is that good. I am a fan like any other and I agree from a pure entertainment of blood and carnage, it was not that great a fight. However, from a technical POV it was amazing! I love the sport for what it is, not what I want it to be. a technical POV it was amazing! I love the sport for what it is, not what I want it to be.
dude, what?
your sense of mma history seems a bit off. Fedor beat prime Nog in 2003 and 2004, and prime Cro Cop in 2005; both those guys were absolute world-beaters then.
I dont understand how people can actually claim not to be “sold” on Fedor. he could lose his next three fights and he’s still in the rarest air
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Mar 30, 2010 3:59 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
yeah no kidding right ..?
“Not sold on Fedor”… funny shit right there.
get the fuck outta here…foo
wanderlei ::: shogun ::: bj penn ::: fedor ::: mir
by cauliflower_ears on Mar 31, 2010 3:11 AM EDT up reply actions
not sold? it wasn’t just that be beat Nog…he probably shorted Nog’s life with those beatings. He didn’t just beat CroCop…he took it to him. He didn’t just get suplexed my Randleman, he turned it over and kimura’d his ass like 50 seconds later.
He KTFO’d Arlovski. He KTFO’d Brett.
Even when he doesn’t stop a guy (which is rare….look at Fedor’s fights)…he brutalizes them. A champ doesn’t just always win…he dominates. Or pulls out at the end from the jaws of defeat whatever….GSP did a lay n pray. Let’s be clear…against someone that NO ONE said had a true shot. other than on the feet. that’s why all the hate. don’t tell me he only has a puncher’s chance…and then over the majority of 25 min’s on the ground….he barely looks like he was in a fight.
Gatti. Dekkers. Pele. Aoki. Kang. Vanderlei. Basillio. Harry Greb.
by theworldsoldestsport on Mar 30, 2010 3:35 PM EDT reply actions
GSP did not lay n pray. He had two decent submission holds on Hardy but he just didn’t tap. If most people had that nasty ude garami put on them like that, they would tap. Regardless of whether it was the most exciting fight, GSP’s ability to control his opponents amazes me. He’s just insanely good. Watching good grappling is my favorite part of MMA. I know that’s not what most people probably like, but it’s what I enjoy the most.
And as for Fitch being “The Human Blanket” as the article stated, come on Downey, Jake Shields is the human blanket if anybody is.
by Cliff Speed on Mar 30, 2010 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions
gsp is greatest but his bouts are boring.
another matchup with fitch. just great. fitch is so boring they did not even show the interview with him after the fight. he did not looked hurt to me. as for fedor until he can beat brock lesnar, shane carwin, junior dos santos or cain velasquez he is not the best in even the heavyweight division. he was the best a few years ago. not anymore. gsp is fighting the contempararies. fedor is not. oh yeah i threw frank mir off the wolfmans money train. i hope they match him up with jds so he gets his azz kicked again. peace out.
I'm all about covering the spread and moneylines. I was building a house, I don't deserve this, deserves have nothing to do with it. Bang. "Unforgiven" I drink your milkshake. I drink it up! "There Will BE Blood"
by wolfmanshowlforever on Mar 30, 2010 4:54 PM EDT reply actions
just like hollywood had the movie "throw momma from the train"
i decided that frank mir’s gameplan was zhit so i threw him off my train. remember when we saw him at the palms and i thought the shirt said buffer b/c it was a dark brown. now that i’ve seen it in white it said suffer and suffer he did.
I'm all about covering the spread and moneylines. I was building a house, I don't deserve this, deserves have nothing to do with it. Bang. "Unforgiven" I drink your milkshake. I drink it up! "There Will BE Blood"
by wolfmanshowlforever on Mar 30, 2010 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
even if Fedor isn't the best now, you can't claim he isn't the best of all time
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Mar 30, 2010 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions
*at least in HW
We're just a million little gods causin' rain storms, turning every good thing to rust.
by Anthony Pace on Mar 30, 2010 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Cory I think makes a pretty good point though
Every other Pride superstar that has come to UFC after the collapse has been having a pretty rough time. I really don’t count Anderson here because Pride was still around when he singed.
by doonerthesooner on Mar 30, 2010 5:26 PM EDT reply actions
The only thing I thought was boring about the GSP/Hardy Fight.
Was Hardy’s game off his back. I thought he was supposed to have a some BJJ training? I’m surprised Hardy only gave himself one way of winning the fight. You would think he would have tried to finish the fight off his back but all he tried to do was scramble and hold on to GSP for dear life. I’m not saying doing so would be easy but you would think that maybe when he realized he was down 4 rounds he would try something different.
Fedor is the best Heavyweight until he proves otherwise. While Nogs guard is very dangerous Fedor is just as good a grappler. It’s just different styles
by doonerthesooner on Mar 30, 2010 5:37 PM EDT reply actions
I think Anderson is the P4P greatest myself
by doonerthesooner on Mar 30, 2010 5:38 PM EDT reply actions
ehh..
it’s arguable of course….Anderson has fought in multiple weight classes and dominated….whereas Fedor has not….however, Fedor has never really lost….Silva has.
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I think it is more of a statement when you dictate where the fight takes place.
If you take a world class grappler/striker out of there comfort zone and make them fight your fight it is way more impressive. Especially guys like BJ, Georges, and Anderson who are so well rounded that depending on who they fight they can change where they want the fight to go.(I’m not saying Fedor isn’t just as well rounded as the names I mentioned above but mentioning him here would contradict the post I’m commenting on) I don’t think greatness is measured by Anderson jumping into Leites’ guard or GSP standing with Alves or BJ Penn trying to work his gaurd against Sherk, but more of taking your opponents greatest strength and turning it into a crippling weakness.
by doonerthesooner on Mar 30, 2010 5:48 PM EDT reply actions
Fedor is the most complete fighter...
Great article! I do believe Fedor is the best and most complete fighter in the planet and if he were fighting in the UFC he would definitely without a doubt in my mind be the best P4P fighter. There is not a fighter in the world with the skills and endurance of Fedor. I do not believe any fighter has the skills to dominate Fedor on the ground or standing up.
But he hasn’t really been tested right now so I say that GSP is the best p4p fighter right now because there is no one that shows any signs of stopping him. Fedor is number 2. SIlva is number 3 because he has lost and needs to fight at LHW.
When Fedor becomes Strikeforce HW champion I will put him back on the top of my P4P rankings. But the moment Fedor becomes UFC HW champion… he’ll secure the title of the best P4P fighter ever to live.
by Christopher James Bonnette on Mar 30, 2010 11:13 PM EDT reply actions
Good article
Whilst disappointed with the GSP fight at the weekend it kind of reminded me of Andersons Silvas title defence against Thales Leites in the sense that Silva did all he could to avoid his opponents strongest skill set and ultimately made it a slow and quite boring fight.
awwww come on
It takes two to tango.
Dan Hardy is extremely tough and resilient. He knows enough jiu-jitsu to escape any submission attempt from GSP and can defend himself against his opponent’s attack. He was unable to mount any meaningful offense against the champion.
Thales Leites was able to take the champion down once, but unable to find any holes in Silva’s ground game to submit him. He was unable to mount any meaningful offense against the champion standing up and avoided standing through out the fight.
What can GSP or Anderson Silva do when their opponents can not mount any significant offense?
"There's nothing cool about taking punishment" - Floyd Mayweather Jr.
by VeeisAnimated on Mar 31, 2010 6:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Horrible article, Fedor and GSP have nothing in common one fights the best competition and dominates them from start to finish and is building an unmatched legacy. The other picks and chooses who he fights and when and keeps ducking the premier org where all his top contenders are.
GSP put on a beautiful and dominant performance against Dan Hardy, he’s cleared out his entire division and still continues to challenge himself. Fedor took 3 years off from facing top 5 guys and has basically made his reputation by beating UFC washouts and things he did 5 years ago.
you missed the whole point of the article.
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by Kelvin Hunt on Mar 31, 2010 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
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