UFC 123 Rampage vs Machida Aftermath: Quinton Jackson and BJ Penn Ain't Done Yet
Last night we saw a pair of legendary fighters, two of the brightest luminaries in MMA's short history, declared victorious at UFC 123. But for many fans, to see the effort put forth by these two great fighters was a suprise.
Many thought BJ Penn's pair of losses to Frankie Edgar were the culmination of his time as an elite fighter. Penn seemed to lack the competitive drive in each loss that, when he possesses it, makes him perhaps the most lethal fighter below Anderson Silva's weight class. The UFC chose to test Penn's capricious motivation, placing in front him the old rival Matt Hughes for a third and final time.
A lot of people want to consider Hughes a far cry from his former self, but that only speaks to how great he was as a champion. He might not ever reclaim the 170 lbs. title from Georges St. Pierre, but Matt Hughes is still a legitimate top-10 fighter at welterweight. BJ Penn came out and beat the greatest welterweight of all time like Hughes owed him money. The Penn we saw last night looked like the fiery kid who destroyed Din Thomas and Caol Uno those many UFC's ago. I can't wait to see if Penn sustains this level of motivation.
But the biggest shocker of the night was Quinton Jackson coming out in excellent physical condition with a focused gameplan and walking down Lyoto Machida. In the days leading up to the fight, it was hard to find a fan who thought Machida wasn't going to run laps around Rampage. It was supposed to be common wisdom that going through all the famous battles and a sojourn to Hollywood had drained Rampage of the tenacity that's made him an icon of the sport. Well, I feel vindicated in thinking it's been Wolfslair more than anything that has hampered Jackson's performances.
He came out with his typical crisp boxing and scored on Machida in the tight exchanges and the clinch. Machida was fast -- as we all knew he would be -- and darted in and out of the pocket to prevent any one-shot kills by Rampage. But Rampage scored and won in the fashion most predicted Machida to take a victory. Though Machida dominated round 3 with the stiffest shot of the fight, got mounted position, and nearly submitted Rampage, it was a clear win for Jackson on the 10-point must system. If the fight had championship rounds, things might have gone differently, but Rampage has proven before that he excels in Rounds 4 and 5. No matter what, the victory puts Jackson right in the mix for the next title shot at light heavyweight.
Up next for Penn is a proposed matchup with perennial contender and consensus #2 welterweight Jon Fitch. If Penn can get by the stifling wrestler, it's likely there will be clamoring for GSP/Penn III. As for Jackson, a rematch with Forrest Griffin seems tantalizing. No matter who's up for either fighter, it won't be so easy for folks to count them out as it was in the weeks leading up to the very memorable UFC 123.
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I picked Rampage...
but, like yourself, I never pick against him.
It was good to see him in top condition again and looking more motivated. I was on my feet screaming ‘Slam him! Slam him!’ when Machida went for the arm bar. Quintons post fight reaction reminded me of after the Griffin fight when he was very humble but later admitted after watching the tape he (and I) thought he won. That would be a fun rematch.
I'd love to see Rampage/Griffin II
"Tim Sylvia’s sphincter is demonstrably weaker than Andrei Arlovski’s chin." – hlebtasic
by Anthony Pace on Nov 21, 2010 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
Pace Machida’d me because he beat me to the punch here, so I feel if I post what I wrote it’d just be overkill….anyways, the whole bar went nuts when Rampage won and went crazy for BJ…my wife even made the observation when BJ came out that he looked like he was about to ‘kill his opponent’…boy was she almost right…all in all, other than a poor showing from Gerald Harris, a really good show top to bottom
MMA For Real Contributor
Go ahead and put it up, CW
can’t be enough Rampage love
"Tim Sylvia’s sphincter is demonstrably weaker than Andrei Arlovski’s chin." – hlebtasic
by Anthony Pace on Nov 22, 2010 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
Let's be fair here
Although Hughes did get beat, it’s not like he was beaten on pillar to post for three rounds; he got dropped early, and TKO’d. It’s not like any questions about BJ’s training were answered, or his “motivation” or whatever, just that he landed a solid right-hook, and pounced, putting the nearly 40 year old Hughes out. The trilogy, and certainly the night went to B.J., but I think that saying that Penn looked reinvigorated or Hughes looked over the hill is a little silly. It wasn’t a long enough of a fight to use as a barometer of much, if anything.
Also, Rampage’s victory wasn’t one without a smidge of bad judging. I had it 29-28 for Machida, and so did a lot of other people. The judges didn’t see it the same way I did, and although I (and many others) disagree with them, this was far from a robbery. Forrest said to me after the fight “The only thing Jackson was hitting that first round were Machida’s gloves”, and although it’s an exageration I agree. Just peep the Fight Metric stats http://blog.fightmetric.com/2010/11/rampage-vs-machida-fightmetric-report.html
Rampage looked good, but not as good as he had in the past. Get that man back with Juanito, and you’ll be looking back at this fight like the man hadn’t even trained.
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Neil! Damn!! Get out of my head!! I agree with you on BJ Penn.
Yeah, a quick KO (T)KO victory doesn’t tell you anything about the motivation of a fighter like BJ Penn. Not to mention, the whole “BJ is back” screams online is kind of ridiculous. The same guy that beat Florian and Sanchez, lost to Edgar twice. I’m not surprised at the 20 second victory because he was always a bad match up for Hughes. He’s simply faster, can take a punch and deliver and has good grappling skills.
Note: I did not see the ’Page vs Machida fight. I suck.
BUT . . . judging from the stats of both FightMetric AND CompuStrike, Rampage won. Evidently he did enough to score on points in the first 2 rounds. If this was Pride, Machida would have been awarded the victory. Note, both sites do not score a 3rd round knockdown for Machida. In the end, I like Josuel Distak summation of the fight:
I did not like the scoring for the fight, but it’s important to point out that Lyoto is not training the right way, he’s lacking motivation in his training routine. If he was motivated, he wouldn’t have waited so long to do what he did in the third round
We all know that Rampage is supposed to be this one-dimensional boxer and all but he had slightly more leg strikes than Machida. Hopefully Rampage fight sooner than later . . . I think we will see a much better fighter. -Neil- you’re right. Rampage + Juanito = FIRE.
(And please note, unlike many people, I’m not trying to take a stab at Wolfslair because I really do not know exactly what’s going on over there or what’s going on with Rampage.)
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Nov 22, 2010 6:13 AM EST up reply actions
If you think Rampage won on Compustrike and Fight Metric
Take another look. Fight Metric gave it a 29-29, and that was with an effectiveness score of 23 to 14 in the first round (ie borderline 10-10), and a third round of 13 to 121 for Machida in the third. I’ll take a draw, but Rampage winning is a little goofy, and that idea can be bolstered by Rampage admitting he got his ass beat.
As for Compustrike, their stats also look much closer to a draw overall, and round by round it’s not a whole lot different. The non-power strikes (you know, the pitter-patter strikes in the clinch to the body/legs) don’t mean a whole lot to me too, because hey, punching someone in the thigh five times doesn’t end fights, or even impact it in a meaningful way.
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I didn’t say Hughes was over the hill, in fact I said he was still a legitimate top fighter. And I think it’s undeniable that we haven’t seen this fire from BJ Penn since the Diego Sanchez fight.
"Tim Sylvia’s sphincter is demonstrably weaker than Andrei Arlovski’s chin." – hlebtasic
by Anthony Pace on Nov 22, 2010 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
Oh no, I wasn’t taking a shot at you, it was just more of some of the sentiment I’ve seen elsewhere. What fire did you see out of BJ? I’m sure if he had knocked off Edgar’s head you’d have seen him running around the arena like a maniac too; my point is that with a fight that only lasted twenty-odd seconds, you can’t take away anything except that somebody got caught. Penn’s will wasn’t tested, his cardio wasn’t tested.. I think the only thing that was tested was whether or not a fresh BJ Penn can land a kill shot, and I don’t think that’s something that’s ever been questioned.
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It just seemed like from the the walkout to when he was about to run out of the cage, we saw a bit more pep in his step. Honestly, I’m intuiting things that may or may not have been there, but I’m just referring to his general demeanor outside of those 21 seconds as well as the fight itself. Of course, he’s going to look a lot lighter on his feet against Hughes than Edgar just by the eye test, but I think he had a bit more hunger for this one. Intangibles, I suppose.
"Tim Sylvia’s sphincter is demonstrably weaker than Andrei Arlovski’s chin." – hlebtasic
by Anthony Pace on Nov 22, 2010 7:21 PM EST up reply actions
I like GSP vs Penn III, so long as it’s because Penn is a top contender, not because of that nonsense “they need another rematch because they’ve already fought twice!!!!1 TRILOGY”
We already know who’s the better fighter, but top contender is top contender.
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