MMA Judge Cecil Peoples Is A Genius

by Kelvin Hunt on Oct 30, 2009 1:34 PM EDT in News Comment 24 comments

I thought I was done with the whole Rua/Machida fight, but I had to get this out there. When you know a MMA judge by name, it can only be one of two things. Either that judges does a very good job, or that judge has a lot of questionable decisions on his record. People's falls into the latter category, but has been pretty outspoken in defense of his decision to award Lyoto Machida the win against Shogun Rua at UFC 104. Below People's attempts to provide reasoning behind his decision, in part why he awarded the first round for Machida:

"My thing is, Rua did hit him more," said Peoples. "But Machida hit him harder, especially in the early rounds."

Ok, so it's possible to actually tell how much force a punch or kick lands from ringside? I don't think so, but People's provides his own assessment:

"I’m really perplexed about how you give (Rua) this round, because Shogun was kicking (Machida) a lot in the legs, but every time he kicked him in the legs, he got hit in the face," he said. "Shogun would put his hand up, and Machida would go right through, sweat’s flying off (Rua’s) face. Shogun kicked (Machida) in the belly – that’s how he got the red mark.

He must be a genius to have all that figured out. Like, how can he verify that a punch landed( mostly jabs) did more damage than a leg kick? However, to his credit he does admit that the ten point scoring system isn't fit for MMA scoring:

The scoring system is a very good scoring system for boxing,

HT: MMAWeekly

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Quick history note.

Pernell Whitaker vs. Oscar De La Hoya
Many people felt Whitaker won the fight. According to the CompuBox stats he landed more punches than Oscar De La Hoya BUT Oscar landed more power shots.* Whitaker was deducted a point in round 3 for a headbutt and scored a knockdown in the 9th round. Why did Oscar De La Hoya win this fight? Some judges said Oscar hit Whitaker with the bigger power shots.

Ironically Oscar De La Hoya would go on an OUTBOX and frustrate Felix Trinidad just like Whitaker did to him, only to lose a controversial decision. Why? Well there’s a slight difference but it is the same. After clearly winning the first 8 rounds, Oscar decided to coast the last four, while Trinidad chased him landed what was percieved as the bigger power shots.

So if the judges believe Machida landed the more powerful shots, I can definitely see why they awarded him the win. There’s history and precedent.

Note, Oscar was younger and bigger than Whitaker. It is my estimation that his shots will generally appear stronger.

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by VeeisAnimated on Oct 30, 2009 2:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

No history lesson is needed...

.the point is..how can the judge qualify which is the harder shot…it’s not like Machida was snapping Shogun’s head back with punches or anything…whereas Machida was clearly not as mobile from the leg kicks…

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by Kelvin Hunt on Oct 30, 2009 3:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I don’t know how the judge qualifies power shot over a regular jab. Or why one judge doesn’t consider a low leg kick effective? I think another person outside of a 2-man fight determining how hard one fighter hit another is pure nonsense, bananas.

The history note was just to demonstrate how they judge fights. Oscar De La Hoya did not damage Pernell Whitaker just like Machida didn’t inflict any damage on Rua with his power shots.

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by VeeisAnimated on Oct 30, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

oscar won way too many of the early rounds (at least 8) imo for the tito fight to even considered. the whitaker/oscar fight was much closer and the perception that he won b/c his punches were harder my be a bit more off than some think. i think pernell was paying for his defensive 1rst style from the past, so the judges could have been persuded by this, the fans reactions, the promoters and even the orgs(wbc,wba,ibf etc.). the 2nd fight between oscar and shane moseley was scored like this as well. compubox had oscar landing ALOT more punches than shane, but the judges said that they thought shane’s where harder. i always thought shane just had this way of making facial jestures and head movements that made him to appear to be punching harder, even though there is no way of proving that. i think both fighters where equal in punching power, but oscar’s left hook was the scariest punch between the 2. i though shane won the 1rst fight (no brainer) and oscar won the 2nd, but it was a very close fight. would have love too have seen a 3rd fight between those, but oscar brought him on as a partner to golden boy(they were always friends since back in the amatuer days, as most know). now as for the rua/machida fight goes, leg kicks are not getting the fair amount of respect they deserve. 1 solid punch to the head should not mean more or score more points than 3-4 solid leg kicks. that’s where the judging in mma needs improvement. this has been 1 of the most contraversial fights if not THE most ever, so hopefully the backlash will force the judges and the ac’s to look at things differently. i’m past the bad decision and the “robbery” part and want to see the rematch asap(looks like feb or april at the latest) which will probably be best for BOTH FIGHTERS b/c along with machida’s hand beinf g hurt, rua just had a baby not too long ago and probably had a very draining cmp for this fight(he said he was throwing 1000 leg kicks per day, thats alot!) unlike most i think rua takes the rematch settting up a nice fight with rashad (assuming he gets past thiago silva) and then a super fight anderson silva next year (all 3 fighters need to stay away from brock imo). Machida will still be in the thick of things regardless and could retain his title, but he is not unbeatable, like anderson, gsp, and bj are in their respective weight classes. i’m done. :)

by bdw on Oct 30, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yea

man..MMA really needs a new scoring system…or just use PRIDE’s old format.

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by Kelvin Hunt on Oct 30, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

there are alot of paralells to be drawn between the rua/machida fight and the rematch between oscar and shane. hbo’s anounce team was definetly pro-oscar(him being the #1 house fighter) and called the fight a blow-out. as did hbo’s ringside judge harold ledderman. i had oscar wiining easily, until i re-watched it muted and thought it was much closer, but oscar had still won) most of the fans watching thought the fight was much closer than called and i can remember jim lampley and larry merchant being almost apologetic the next week when they re-aired it, claiming they did not have a preference ;)

leg kicks should be scored the same as a punch unless the punch knocks the fighter down or clearly dazes him in mma, imo.

by bdw on Oct 30, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

depends imo...

leg kicks should be scored the same as a punch unless the punch knocks the fighter down or clearly dazes him in mma, imo.

If fighter A is landing a jab(punch) and fighter B is landing solid leg kick…should the leg kick count more?

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by Kelvin Hunt on Oct 30, 2009 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

hard to say

for real. a jab is not as punishing as hook or a cross usually and alot depends on where the leg kick lands. if it lands on the thigh, it’s not as effective either as landing it on the knee.

by bdw on Oct 30, 2009 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

if it lands on the thigh solidly…it’s No Joke

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by Kelvin Hunt on Oct 30, 2009 6:45 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

thank god mr hunt has gotten into the discussion

i applaud his efforts. i will starte again that cecil peoples is in the karate hall of fame. anybody know where this place is? i’ll bet there is a trophy and bust head of the karate kid somewhere in the building.

by wolfmanshowlforever on Oct 30, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

here's his hall of fame picture

"I had to fight all my life to survive. They were all against me... but I beat the bastards and left them in the ditch." ~ Ty Cobb

by RearNakedPoke on Oct 30, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

are you serious? the yellow glove's are pathetic if that is real picture of hof!

the yellow glove’s are pathetic anyway. lol!

by wolfmanshowlforever on Oct 30, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

man, only thing beeter than his HOF photo is his refereeing

Jorge Santiago vs Sean Salmon

"I had to fight all my life to survive. They were all against me... but I beat the bastards and left them in the ditch." ~ Ty Cobb

by RearNakedPoke on Oct 30, 2009 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i was just kidding, this is the real one...

plus his fan club shot…

"I had to fight all my life to survive. They were all against me... but I beat the bastards and left them in the ditch." ~ Ty Cobb

by RearNakedPoke on Oct 30, 2009 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

LMAO. REC'D

by bdw on Oct 30, 2009 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

;)

"I had to fight all my life to survive. They were all against me... but I beat the bastards and left them in the ditch." ~ Ty Cobb

by RearNakedPoke on Oct 30, 2009 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

great stuff lmao!

by wolfmanshowlforever on Oct 31, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

to even be considered close, the oscar/ felix fight i meant to say.

by bdw on Oct 30, 2009 4:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Cecil is as horrible as the internet is making him out ot be, best evah though:

Bloody hell.

by 3PA on Oct 30, 2009 6:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I think the scoring system is fine

judges need to learn how to score submission attempts, active guard play, leg kicks, and if a round is so close it could go either way score the round a 10-10. In time some of these problems will be fixed

by EVeezy on Oct 31, 2009 2:35 AM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs

Someone kick People's in the leg

Seriously, hit him with all the force of a well trained muay thai calcified shin right above the knee. Then do it three or four more times. Then get him in the ribs, a whipping thud from the hip.

Then give him a mouth guard and jab him in the face for a few seconds and ask him which hurt more.

by Shaun32887 on Oct 31, 2009 1:59 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs

Rec'd

and you made me fall off my seat :D

"I had to fight all my life to survive. They were all against me... but I beat the bastards and left them in the ditch." ~ Ty Cobb

by RearNakedPoke on Oct 31, 2009 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Also

I think his karate background might be a problem, as, as far as I understand, kicks in karate (quick, long range, snapping foot kicks from the knee) are used more for setting up a power shot to the face, whereas in muay thai, they’re incredibly damaging, comparable to taking a baseball bat to one’s femur.

by Shaun32887 on Oct 31, 2009 2:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

kicks in karate (quick, long range, snapping foot kicks from the knee) are used more for setting up a power shot to the face

thats an interesting point, when i used to learn Shotokan they were just an easy way of scoring points in sparring, yes you could use them and did too, to set up follow up strikes (backfists, punches…) . I would never have counted them as power strikes though. of course thats just one gym, i’d be interested to hear what the rest of the feedback is. nice observation!!

"I had to fight all my life to survive. They were all against me... but I beat the bastards and left them in the ditch." ~ Ty Cobb

by RearNakedPoke on Oct 31, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs